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Va. Senate allows for side order of guns with every meal—bullets included

By Allison Moore / allison@theklaxon.com / 02.17.2010

Updated on: 02.17.10 at 12:35 am

John Darkow, Columbia Daily Tribune, Missouri/caglecartoons.com

In a recent vote, the Virginia Senate approved a measure that allows concealed weapon permit holders to carry guns in restaurants that serve alcohol, as long as the weapon holder does not consume alcohol. Debate over the Second Amendment ignites passions from both sides of the political spectrum, but I will admit that this latest development (in a state where I lived for two years) has left me a bit bewildered.

Maybe it’s the marathon of anti-gun episodes of The West Wing I indulged in while being snowed in for 12 days, but I’m having trouble understanding the need for this proposed law. The bill’s sponsor, Sen. Emmett Hanger (R-Augusta), said he wants to reduce a burden on people who currently carry concealed weapons but are forced to leave them in their car rather than carry them into such establishments. Hanger said he was particularly sensitive to women who carry guns in their purses to defend themselves when they go to Red Lobster (his words, not mine).

I’m sorry, but as a young woman living in a major metropolitan area, I honestly can say I’ve never felt the need to pack heat while on a dinner date. Last time I checked, we don’t live in the Wild West and the food you order on the menu is already dead. What’s wrong with leaving your gun in the car?

Supporters of the law basically are saying that people should carry guns to protect themselves from people with guns. That seems counterproductive to me. The proposed law prohibits those carrying concealed weapons in restaurants from consuming alcohol, but how will this be enforced? Will metal detectors identify who is carrying a gun? Will servers be required to ask all patrons before fulfilling their request for an alcoholic beverage? It’s pretty well known that some people do not hold their liquor well. Violence often accompanies alcohol consumption—add a few guns into the mix and it could be a recipe for disaster. Anyone is capable of going postal, whether they legally obtained their gun or not, and I honestly can’t say I’d feel safer knowing more people are carrying concealed weapons in public places.

According to the Washington Post, similar efforts to loosen gun restrictions are under way in Arizona, Mississippi, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming. One bill under consideration in Arizona this year is a measure to allow residents to carry concealed weapons without a permit, basically abolishing existing training and certification requirements. Wyoming’s House enthusiastically passed a similar bill.

The Bill of Rights is important, and the Second Amendment certainly is an important part of that document. It’s a delicate balance trying to maintain the integrity of the Second Amendment while also protecting American citizen. This debate will likely continue for decades to come, and there may not be a right or wrong answer. As new gun laws continue to be formed and old ones repealed, let’s hope lawmakers don’t let personal freedom—and political gain—negatively impact personal safety.

Comments(18)

  1. The groan-worthy titles of these hand-wringing “news” articles is just pitiful. A “side order of guns”? Yet another “Wild West” reference (despite the murder/rape/etc rates in modern urban slums)? “the food is already dead”?

    Yuk yuk yuk. Yes, girls carry so they can get into Matrix-style shootouts with other people with guns. Forget people with knives.

    Or just thugs who can easily overpower them. Or muggers. Or rapists.

    The only thing a pistol does is level the playing field between a 103 pound girl and her 230 pound mugger. And if she never pulls it (or owns ones), the freedom of people to exercise their rights will make her immeasurably safer than in places where everyone is disarmed but the thugs.

  2. The answer to the question of “What’s wrong with leaving your gun in the car?” can be answered by doing a quick Wikipedia search of “Luby’s Massacre.”

    As far as people carrying guns to protect themselves from people with guns, if it truly seems counterproductive, I guess we shouldn’t be needed the police or armed forces anymore. What other way should you protect from people with guns? Really good karate? There will always be a very few predatory and evil people, no matter how much we wish there weren’t. As someone who has worked with police and emergency services, I know that most of the times police are at a minimum of several minutes away – way longer than necessary for someone that initiates that evil act to complete it.

    How will laws be enforced? With the typical concealed carry civilian, they’ve volunteered to go through the process of being background checked, fingerprinted, tested, and often more. They’re statistically more law-abiding than regular civilians, and the vast majority that I know take the responsibility of concealed carry very seriously. Dos this ENSURE they won’t drink? Of course not, but it’s not very likely. But really, what’s keeping ANYONE right NOW from not drinking in a restaurant while carrying concealed? A law breaker will break the law, no matter what you want to do about it.

    As a bonus, if you look at FBI statistics regarding homicide, about a full one third of all justified homicides (read: self defense) in this country are by civilians and not police. So if you’re wondering why we need concealed carry at all, there’s your answer. Estimates vary between several hundred thousand to about 2.5 million self-defense uses of firearms a year (>90% without a shot fired). It will probably never be necessary for you, and it will probably never be necessary for me. But not being able to truly defend yourself or your loved ones in the rare instance the time occurs is a mistake you often get to make once.

    Posted by navydan on February 17th, 2010 at 5:59 am

  3. Prior to this law passing, a law-abiding citizen could already carry a gun into a VA restaurant. They just had to have it plainly visible.

    Posted by R. Glover on February 17th, 2010 at 8:50 am

  4. Concealed carry can be seen as a serious but effective “shell game” against potential threats. As more citizens are licensed to leagally carry concealed, even if not carrying all the time, the more likely a violent offender will think twice before making an assult since the chances have increased to be seriously countered.

  5. The Bill of Rights doesn’t ask if you “understand the need” for someone’s rights. I don’t “understand the need” to have the Naked Cowboy in Times Square, or to have pornography or to have people ranting hatefully against American Presidents — this one, the last one — or any group. But that’s not for YOU or ME to decide “need.”

    You have a natural right to protect yourself from rapists and thugs and murderers — who, you can guarantee, will have their guns no matter what the law is. If that woman’s gun hadn’t jammed down in Alabama, she’d have shot a lot more than four people. As it was, four people are dead. What if she’d been deterred knowing there might be a gun to stop her? What if someone had shot her when she drew?

    You cannot look at this as a static problem. I urge you to open your mind wider, and also to ask when you’ve heard of a shooting at a gun club or a licensed gun used in the commission of a crime.

  6. If a normal law abiding person carries a concealed gun for self-defense, it should stay concealed, and stay on the person, everywhere they go throughout the day. The safest and best place for that gun, is on their hip. They will never draw it, never show it off, and no-one will know it is there. Day after day, year after year. Only, if by some unfortunate bad luck, they happen to be attacked by a murderer will they draw their gun. Hopefully that situation never happens.

    Other than practising at a gun range, or locking up in a home safe, the gun does not come out of the holster.

    Now, what happens if all sorts of places are legally off-limits to the normal law abiding person carrying a gun? They can’t go eat at a restaurant?

    Leaving a gun in the car instroduces several problems. They’d have to unholster a gun, or somehow remove their holster, thus introducing the handling of a gun in public. They’d have to store their gun in their car, which is not nearly as secure as a home safe. If the car got broken into or stolen, then the gun is suddenly in someone else’s hands.

    If there is the rare but plausible event of a murderous attack either at the restaurant, or to or from their car, then they are unarmed and more vulnerable.

    While it is true that you, the author, have gone through life thus far without being raped, tortured, or murdered, not all people who have ever lived in the modern United States have been so lucky. You may have never been in a car accident, either, but you probably have an insurance policy anyway.

    Choosing to carry a concealed handgun for self-defense is similar to having insurance. You plan, and you purchase protection, and you hope to never have to use it. You also understand the fine print of what sort of protection you actually have, and when you are not protected. You avoid dangerous situations wherever possible. You act responsibly within the law. But if the need ever arises whereby you actually need to use your gun, you have prepared yourself as best you can.

    Posted by average person on February 17th, 2010 at 1:18 pm

  7. Those who can, do.
    Those who can’t, become “journalists”.
    Leave the Commonwealth or leave the country. Your journalistic witticisms are over used and as meaningless as cartoons.
    Cripes! who breeds these people who don’t comprehend individual freedoms, self-defense, bad guys vs. good guys, or even that CCP holders are VETTED whereas journalists and dare I say… criminals WITH GUNS are not?

    Posted by SheepDawg on February 17th, 2010 at 3:40 pm

  8. So because YOU have never ‘felt a need’ you would somehow think that this is in some remote way related to the exercise of a fundamental right by others?

    Perhaps millions never feel the need to pretend to be a journalist or exercise free speech, but that has no effect on your rights to do so — and even those who misuse those rights can never be an excuse to infringe YOUR rights due to another person’s bad behavior.

    This has always been a stupid law — concealed carry license holders are among the most law abiding group to be found, more law abiding by far than even the police.

  9. > What’s wrong with leaving your gun in the car?

    Susan Gratia Hupp would be the first to set you straight on that line of thinking. She’s the woman who did as you suggest… and watched as first her father, then her mother, were gunned down by George Hennard (who, by the way, had jumped through all the legal hoops to purchase the guns he used.) Hennard’s killing spree was, at the time, the largest mass murder by a single person using firearms in the country’s history. The number killed was only eclipsed when another madman took advantage of the victim disarmament zone commonly known as Virginia Tech.

    Do your research. At least that way you won’t sound stupid AND ignorant.

    Posted by BabmiB on February 18th, 2010 at 3:14 am

  10. If you wait until you feel “the need” to be adequately equipped to defend yourself, you possibly could have waited too long, perhaps even fatally too long. Responsible adults take responsibility for their own defense. Adults also think factually, not with their feelings.

    Posted by Nebraska Reader on February 18th, 2010 at 9:16 am

  11. “What’s wrong with leaving your gun in the car?”

    Google Suzanna Hupp.

    Posted by treadway on February 18th, 2010 at 11:47 am

  12. Despite your misgivings the sky is not falling. I live in Pennsylvania and not only can License to Carry Firearms holders dine at restaurants that serve alcohol, then can even legally consume some if they so desire. No wild west saloon shootouts, no blood in the street, and the sky has not fallen. It’ll be ok. Really.

    Posted by Guy from PA on February 18th, 2010 at 11:59 am

  13. Lady,

    Look up “Luby’s cafeteria shooting” to answer your question.

    Posted by arthur on February 18th, 2010 at 3:03 pm

  14. Ask this lady “What’s wrong with leaving your gun in the car?”

    http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/movieplay-hupp-congress-swf.htm

    Posted by Paladin on February 18th, 2010 at 6:07 pm

  15. [...] Va. Senate allows for side order of guns with every meal—bullets … [...]

  16. Why don’t you ask this lady why she would need to carry a gun in a Restaurant that serves alcohol Ms. Moore?!!! This woman DID leave her “legal” gun in the car and now she is a widow. She had a stalker and he murdered her husband infront of her. You just don’t get it & probably won’t until some thug beats you within an inch of your life. Then you will be carrying too.

    Meet Nikki Goeser from Nashville Tennessee
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8145457.stm

    Posted by Robert on February 28th, 2010 at 6:39 pm

  17. Is this your first blog!? I’m pretty sure I remember you from a while back..used to read your old blog regularly. Not sure if I’m thinking of the same person though!

  18. It’s amazing what things Google can bring us too..I would’ve never found your blog otherwise. :P

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